Secrets To Effortless Language Learning

Thank you. Welcome to the Effortless English Show. Hi, I'm A.J. Hogue, and this is the show where we teach you to speak English powerfully. Go to EffortlessEnglishClub.com and join my free email course.

What is the number one secret for success with English? Well, my guest today is Steve Kaufman. Steve speaks over 13 languages. He is the founder of Link.com, and I think we can say he's an expert on language learning.

So he's going to talk today about his secrets for learning languages. So let's go ahead and go straight to Steve. And Steve, what is your number one secret for learning English or any other languages for our audience?

Well, you know, I could talk about all of the little things that I do, the techniques that I've learned that help me learn languages. But I think the biggest thing is that I like learning languages.

I like learning them. I like the language. It doesn't matter what the language is. At first, I may not know that much about it, and the more I get into it, the more I study the language, the more I like it.

So I think that it's that ability to enjoy learning the language, like the learning process, like the language, and with that, the confidence that you will end up despite all the problems, all the forgetting, all the difficulties, you will end up being able to communicate better and better in the language. So I think that's the attitude that I have, which I think is, it's not unique, but people who haven't done a lot of language learning, who are still struggling with their first language, they don't have the perspective that I have, because I've learned so many languages.

And you know, that's not something you learn in school. I mean, when you're learning languages in school, which is where most people start their first experience, I don't remember enjoyment really being talked about much or, you know, seeming important. And I think people carry that mentality, that attitude from school into their independent learning, and they see it as this You know, this thing they must achieve to, you know, achieve a score or achieve something.

And there's not a lot of enjoyment or fun in that. I agree 100 percent. And what's happening now is that more and more people are going to be learning outside the classrooms.

because there's so many more resources available now, even in terms of technology. You know, I have a little MP3 player here, my iPad, what is it called, iPod Nano.

Okay, when I started studying Chinese, I had a great big open reel tape recorder. You know, so that, the internet, the resources that are on the internet. So as we have to learn more on our own, it becomes more important that we take charge of our own learning.

So a lot of the ways in which we learned in the classroom where we had a test, so you had to learn this for the test and that for the test, and making a mistake in that environment was bad because you didn't get 9 out of 10, you got 6 out of 10. So people are afraid of making mistakes.

One thing that I've learned is you have to make mistakes. It's only through making mistakes. You have to not understand very well what you're reading and listening to. You have to do that.

And you have to put yourself in a position where you don't understand. And you can't find the words. And all of this is essential to the learning process. So those things which in a classroom you're afraid of getting poor marks for doing, those are precisely the things that you have to do when you're an independent learner.

And I think that's such a key change for people to realize. And everyone wants the secret method, the secret little technique that will allow them to learn English much faster or master it much faster. But this attitude, this psychology, I found also as a teacher, that's what I'm focusing on more and more because that seems to be what's most important, this attitude. Kind of the opposite attitude of school, which is enjoying and realizing that mistakes are okay and being comfortable with uncertainty.

You know, all of these things. Absolutely. And I think that, you know, each person has this tremendous power, potential power to learn. and I think what you're doing is very, very important because you're helping people unlock this potential and that potential that they have within themselves, that attitude is far more important than any book, any grammar book, any stack of flash cards or any other technique that they might use.

If they are genuinely motivated, confident, driven to learn, to learn the language but also through the language to learn other things. Most of my language learning is not involved in studying grammar rules.

Very quickly I move to interesting content on subjects that interest me. Some person might be interested in gardening, in music, in anime if they're studying Japanese or in history so that to get that language to where you are getting that sense of power that you are actually using this language for some practical purpose, which may be listening, may be watching movies, may be any way that you are using the language, even if you only understand 60-70%, that's a wonderful achievement. And people spend more time worrying about what they don't understand, what they can't do, what they forget, where they should be encouraging themselves by giving themselves credit for what they can do,

You know, last week we had Theresa Snyder, she's a writer, and we were talking about reading. And, you know, the same idea you're talking about, which is, you know, people always ask me, what should I read? Tell me the book to read. And my answer is, well, what's interesting to you?

Because some people like romance and some people like motorcycles and some people like politics. And people, you know, a message I try to get out is trust yourself. Trust your interests. You don't have to rely on the expert.

You know, you can trust yourself. Absolutely. And I think this is crucial in all fields of education. People have to become more independent. And they have to decide what they want.

I mean, people as well on my YouTube channel, they say, should I learn Japanese or Spanish? Well, how do I know? You know, that's entirely up to you. So it has to be driven by the person.

Another thing that I would say in terms of my approach to language learning compared to many other people, I feel that words are very important. I feel that if we want to be fluent, if we want to be able to discuss a variety of subjects, we need a lot of words. And we also need to have a high degree of comprehension. listening comprehension, reading comprehension.

So this also requires a lot of words. When I study a language, I'm much more interested in how well I'll be able to understand and eventually communicate in six months, nine months, 12 months from now. I'm not that concerned about what I can say after one month.

It really doesn't matter much to me after one month because I'm not in it for one month. I'm in it for 12 months and beyond. I'm constantly refreshing the languages that I've learned. So I think that's a strategic thing.

Sometimes people think, well, if I can only learn 10 phrases, I'll be fine. You won't be fine. Because when you use those 10 phrases, you won't understand what people are saying back to you. I had that exact experience in Italy.

I went on a trip. This was many years ago. And I just studied Pinsler. So I learned a few phrases. But I was really, I don't know, something about Italian.

I love the sound of it. So I really got into the sound. And when I was in Rome, I remember I talked to this bartender. And I said something. I ripped off a couple sentences in Italian.

And then he starts talking to me. And I couldn't understand anything he said. There was no communication. Right. We shouldn't underestimate the amount of time it takes to train your brain in the new language, in the culture that surrounds the new language, so that you end up, part of why you don't understand the bartender is

is that you haven't been in that situation before, so you can't anticipate what he's going to say to you. So even if you theoretically understood what he was saying, you still wouldn't get it, because we rely so much on our ability to pick up from clues, we can almost anticipate what people are going to say.

And to develop those habits in a new language takes a long time. A long time. One should never underestimate the amount of time it takes to do that. It's another topic.

I mean, you see this online all the time. People debating, you know, three months, six months, 12 months. And everyone, again, it's a finish line idea that there's some line and I just got to get there as fast as possible and then I'm done.

I know you see this all the time too. What are your thoughts on that schedule mentality? No, I think it's not very helpful because first of all, it gives people the impression that they can make these dramatic strides in three months. In fact, when we learn, a lot of the things that we're learning today aren't going to sink in until six months from now.

It takes a long time. Plus, as I say, you need to get that sort of sense of the culture, sense of the context. Context is so important. This all takes time to accumulate.

And so the point is, getting back to my first point, if you enjoy the process, And if you continue, so if you enjoy it and you continue to spend the time, and if you enjoy it, why wouldn't you continue? You're enjoying it, right? If you continue and if you enjoy it, you will get there.

And does it matter whether it's five months, six, if you're enjoying it, you want it to continue. So, and particularly for people who are learning English, for many of them, it's not like me who learns 12 languages and I hardly have time to use them. Most people learning English are learning English for a very practical purpose. It's something that they're going to need in their lives.

Either they're immigrants or they're working and they need English, so they will continue to use English. So learn to enjoy it. The more you enjoy it, the more you'll use it.

The more you use it, the better you'll get. One other thing I wanted to mention, which is particularly relevant, I think, for English learners. I often hear talk about how, well, I want to speak like a native.

Let me say that I know immigrants in Canada who use the language better than most native English-speaking Canadians, whose use of words I sit back and I have an employee who's Bulgarian.

And he's a programmer for LINC in our office. And when we discuss things, I mean, the way he sets out his ideas, his choice of words, the way he speaks, I'm full of admiration. But he has an accent. And he will never lose his accent.

And it doesn't matter. And it is far more important to be precise in your use of words, to have a sort of a control of natural phrasing. All of these things that you gradually accumulate through using the language, far more important than trying to sound like a native.

You know, when people ask me about pronunciation, I often make the point as well that a lot of... pronunciation, as you said, you don't need to be perfect, whatever that means. But I think that the thing that is most important for pronunciation that I've seen with English is just sort of getting the rhythm right and speaking in sort of natural phrases. It's not obsessing about an accent, you know, that I found that when people...

focus so much on, you know, oh, I can't say R and L perfectly, but they kind of miss just the overall rhythm and natural phrases. And that's, I think, the lack of the natural, you know, use of natural phrases is what often causes problem with understanding that I've seen.

Absolutely. And I often say this, even though I say that one shouldn't be uptight about one's pronunciation. In any situation, when you are speaking, in a way you're performing. The more relaxed you are, the more confident you are in performing anything, in playing a tennis game, in walking a tightrope, the more relaxed you are, the better you will do.

Point number one is don't get stressed out about pronunciation. However, point number two with regard to what people can do to improve their pronunciation, I fully agree with you. Intonation is the key. So practice getting the intonation.

If you practice the intonation and if you have the correct phrasing, other things will start to fall into place. And there may be some sounds that you will never master. There are languages that I speak where I'm quite good in so far as intonation is concerned, but there are sounds that I cannot produce. Cannot.

And it doesn't matter. When I started Effortless English, that name, Effortless English, it was inspired by a kind of Taoist idea. In your book, The Linguist, you open it with a Taoist quote. The idea was not lazy English or don't do anything.

The idea was this idea of effortless effort, which is basically that when you thoroughly love and enjoy something, It doesn't feel like effort. It doesn't feel difficult. Even though you may be actually working quite hard, it's a very big difference when you love something and you're thoroughly enjoying it compared to when you have this willpower idea of I must learn 100 words in this week or something like that.

I agree. And I think there is, again, people can Google this, called flow theory. And the idea is that when you are doing something that is a little difficult for you, but still within your reach and therefore you achieve it, that gives you a great sense of achievement. If we're doing something that's very easy, we don't achieve that.

And I think that's very powerful for the brain. It makes the brain feel good and want to do more. So when I read something, now I'm doing Ukrainian, when I read it and there's lots of unknown words and I'm not really 100% sure of the meaning and I'm slogging my way through it, saving words, I mean that's work. Let's face it, that's work.

It's easier for me to read English. However, the sense of achievement that it was difficult but I kind of got a sense of the meaning. I saved a bunch of words.

There are more words now that I recognize. So you have that sense of mastery. In other words, it's difficult, but you're coping. And so that is, so therefore it's not, it's enjoyable, getting back to the first point.

It's not necessarily effortless, but in a Taoist sense, yeah, it's not something that you're forcing against your nature. You're doing something that you essentially want to do.

I compare it sometimes to that, you know, the runner's high that people talk about. I used to be a runner. Right. And you get into a point, you know, when you're, you know, maybe you're five, six miles in, and suddenly you get this great feeling.

It feels wonderful. You're moving along. Everything feels fantastic. Now, if you look at, you know, biologically, you're using a lot of effort. A lot of work is happening.

And yet, psychologically, it feels wonderful. It feels almost effortless. It's the flow state you're talking about. You're gliding along and you feel like you could go forever.

It's an amazing feeling and we can get that in lots of areas. Exactly. Exactly. And I think it's important to, as I say, enjoy the process and have that sense of what it is you're going to achieve.

You are going to achieve a higher level of competence, understanding, ability to communicate, and all of the satisfaction that that's going to bring you.

So not only is there enjoyment in hopefully you're reading or listening to something of interest or you have an interesting conversation in English, but at the same time you're in the back of your mind and say, wow, you know, I'm this good now and I was only this good six months ago. I'm now this level. And if I continue for another six months, I'll be at this level. And with that will come many advantages in my life, culturally, socially, professionally.

So I think to keep that goal, which in the case of the runner is the finish line, but in the case of language learning is to achieve that next level, that breakthrough. Keep that in mind and just keep everything positive.

I think what you have achieved is to give, and I get many comments from people who come to my YouTube channel and say that one of their favorite sources of English is your English. podcast and your material. Because not only do you speak clearly and so forth, but you also inspire people. And I think that's extremely important.

And we've all had teachers at school who either didn't inspire us or who inspired us. And I remember the ones who inspired us. Yes. Those are certainly the ones that have the most positive impact.

You know, in fact, I sometimes call myself a coach instead of a teacher just because of all those, you know, the experiences people have with school when they think teacher. A lot of people have kind of negative feelings about that word, so I like to say coach sometimes. It's a little more inspiring.

We should mention, by the way, your website, link.com, L-I-N-G-Q.com. Right. Why don't you talk about that for a minute, and would you like to answer some Twitter questions too? Oh, absolutely.

Okay, so talk about Link, and then we'll go to the questions. Okay, well, Link is a project that my son and I started about seven or eight years ago. basically it's a place where you can learn 22 languages we recently added Ukrainian utilizing the resources of the internet and utilizing the contributions of other members so all of the members help each other learn each other's languages a major emphasis on listening and reading to build yourself up to a level where you can now engage with some of the members in

you know, talking via Skype or you can have your writing corrected. So there's a lot of interaction between the members. But the main, and people use it in different ways. But I use it mainly for reading and listening.

So that I either go to the library where members have deposited lots of resources in Spanish, Chinese, English. English is the largest library. And then I read and I save words to a database which creates differential highlighting. There's a bunch of functionality that I won't go into in detail, but the net result for me is that after three weeks of Ukrainian, I can understand much of the Ukrainian radio.

I can understand much of what I read. Now, I put in a lot of time. So that's very briefly on LinkedIn, and I welcome people to come and we can explain and have further discussion there. And people could import, you know, if they had effortless English material, they could import that into your system, right?

Absolutely, and then it'll keep track of how many words they know, how many words they've learned. It creates a whole sort of statistical underpinning for what they're doing, because very often people have the impression they're not progressing. So if they... they can bring in material from Effortless English.

I mean, I think we have some of your material. You do, you have some of my podcasts. Yes, that's right. I have some of your podcasts. But people can import from the New York Times, from The Guardian, from their email messages, whatever they want.

And then they'll immediately see how many words there are new to them, how many words they already know, they save words, generate statistics, the whole thing. So anything that's in digital form can be brought in and becomes a lesson. So to that extent,

It's an unlimited format, an unlimited platform. Fantastic, fantastic. Let's go to questions. We have there for both audio and text, yeah. Oh, yeah, audio and text.

And that's one of the key things, I think, one of the key advantages is you can read along as you're listening in the system or in the app, which is fantastic. And we have an iPod, iPad app, and shortly we'll have a very good Android app. We had two older apps who weren't quite as good, but the new ones are actually very, very good. will shortly be released also for Android.

Yeah, I just started using the iPad one, and it's for Spanish. It's great. It's great. All right, let's go to questions. So it's question time on Twitter.

So my Twitter is AJHogue, so twitter.com slash A-J-H-O-G-E. Type your question. Steve's going to answer questions too, so you can ask me a question. You can ask a question to Steve.

As usual, anything you like, let's read and see what we got here. Okay, may the fourth be with you. Charlie and... Oh, but I should mention the little opening credits we had with the... I hope you saw those and you guys hear the music.

Good. That was from our member Charlie in France. He did the music and he also did the whole video. Wow. Yeah, cool. So, hey, thanks, Charlie. Okay, let's see what we got here in questions.

Okay, here's a good question. Steve, I'll let you answer this. This is from Milky Way, who I believe is in Saudi Arabia. He says, do you think that reading and listening are enough to be fluent in English?

No. No, no, no. To speak well, you have to speak a lot. Make no mistake. To speak well, you have to speak a lot. So if you already have a certain level of vocabulary,

and you can understand you should start speaking more and more. In fact the whole issue of when we start speaking in my opinion is a matter of personal choice and opportunity. So if you have the opportunity to speak with people by all means speak. So the short answer is it's not enough but it's a very efficient way to build up your vocabulary and your comprehension because if you don't have good comprehension you won't be able to have a very good conversation.

Because you have to understand what the other person is saying. And I agree. What I tell people with speaking is that basically just don't force it. So, you know, when you feel ready to speak, when you're eager to speak, and there always will come a time when you're excited to do it, then do it.

Find the opportunities. Get online or in person and... But when you speak, and maybe you could talk about this too, I tell people when they speak, just focus on communicating. Don't be worrying about mistakes or grammar rules.

Just do your best to communicate ideas, even if you're doing a quote bad job. Absolutely. And don't go and analyze how poorly or well you did. You normally, usually do better than you think you did.

And in speaking to context, is so important. In other words, if you're with someone that you like, someone who doesn't put pressure on you, if you're talking about a familiar subject, all of these things are going to help you. If you're in a situation where you're rushed, you're buying a ticket at the train station, the person blurts something out at you, you don't understand what it is, you're tensed up, you won't do very well.

So context matters. Yeah, good point. I get comments sometimes. People say, oh, AJ, I feel really relaxed with you. I understand you easily or... I can chat with you easily.

But then in another situation, I can't. And it's usually a stressful situation. They've got to stand up and give an English presentation to a class or something. And it's like, well, yeah, I mean, you know, native speakers are stressed in those situations too.

Right. And the class situation is not always a natural situation. So sometimes you have role playing or giving speeches in class. That's not real. If you meet someone over a cup of coffee and you're talking about a subject that's interesting, mutually of interest, you'll do better.

Good point. I've got another good question from Twitter here from Jakub Jaworski 10. How is it possible to find time to learn so many languages? I just don't believe it.

How do you do it? Well, I mean, I have more time now because I'm semi-retired. But I would say that I put in an hour to two hours a day. Most of my learning time is listening.

So I listen in the car. to and from work. I play old-timers hockey three times a week so I drive to the rink and back. I work out at home. I listen while I work out.

While working out I have one of these elliptical steppers. I also use my iPad and I study on my iPad. So you have to try to use a lot of what we might otherwise call dead time. You have to develop the ability to multitask.

I'm responsible for cleaning up in the house. So whenever I have to clean up the kitchen or whatever I have to clean up, I'm listening. So listening is a big part of it. I do 60, 70% of my time is listening.

And then I work at link, you know, saving words and phrases so that what I'm listening to, because I only understand 60, 70% of it at first, then I go and read it and review the words and so forth. So you have, but you have to put in, you have to find the time. Some people are into playing tennis, they are fishing, whatever. I don't fish.

If I fished, I'd be there with my earphones on. Yeah, exactly. You know, one thing I recommend a lot is to just, you know, go for a walk. You know, get some exercise and listen at the same time.

And it also keeps you more awake and alert. Sometimes people get sleepy when they're just sitting. So, yeah, I agree. Just finding that extra time. And we have lots of it.

If you really look, most people have a lot of that time. Anytime I've tried to sit down just to listen, unless I was very interested in what was being said, I can't focus. I am better able to focus while I'm doing something else. And bear in mind that you won't be able to focus 100% of the time.

You're going to fade in and out. It doesn't matter when you're listening. We've got another question, possibly from Vietnam, I'm not sure. Do Hing Jiang, Twitter name, says,

It says to both me and to Steve, I haven't got many opportunities to practice English with native speakers, so what should I do to improve my speaking?

I mean, nowadays there are a number of these language exchange sites on the Internet. I don't use them because we have Link where we offer some of the same. But, you know, for example, I'm learning Ukrainian. I've got no one with whom I can speak Ukrainian.

So I focus on listening and reading. and I'm building up my vocabulary, and I'm quite comfortable that now if I met a Ukrainian person, I could say a few things. This is my experience with Russian. I spent a good two years just listening and reading, but I had no need to speak.

So if you have a need to speak, you have to find people with whom to speak, and if you don't have native speakers around you, use Skype. Get on and find these language exchange sites, talk to you. I think these are the things you kind of have to do.

But don't underestimate the power of listening and reading if you don't have the opportunity to speak. Yeah, good point. I would agree. I think that if you don't have that opportunity, use all that time you have listening, listening, listening, and reading.

And then when you do have a chance, which could be we have our VIP webinars every month. We There's italki. I mean, there's so many of them. Yeah, so many, yeah.

Yeah, and so, you know, or even talking to other members, even talking to other non-native speakers, it's still communication, you know? Exactly. I think, yeah, there are opportunities, especially for English. There are so many opportunities.

So many people speak it. And the fact that you speak to a non-native speaker is not going to bother you because you're working on saying what you have to say. You're not going to be influenced by that person's pronunciation as long as most of your listening should be to native speakers, which can be listening to your program or other news or things we have at Link. So that's going to be the bulk of your input.

So if you're speaking to a non-native speaker, if that person is Vietnamese, another Vietnamese person, if you have an English club wherever you live, It's not going to harm your pronunciation as long as the bulk of your listening is to native speakers. That's a great point. So, yeah, if you're spending most of your time listening, listening, listening to native speakers, there's so many audios out there.

And then, yeah, when you speak, then just speak to whomever you can. So I've met many people. In Vietnam, there are a lot of these... English clubs, and they all just talk to each other, and when I go there, I mean many of them speak very, very, very well.

Yeah. So it's, yeah, good point. Okay, let's take one more question before we finish up. Okay, why not? Ilmaestro is asking, Steve, do you think that the Russian language is the hardest one you've learned?

You know, every language has its difficulties. Yeah. I would say that the grammar for Slavic languages is very difficult because if I compare it to Korean, the different endings in Korean are based on some logic.

If it ends this way, then it means this. In Russian, the different endings, there's no particular logical reason why a word is either masculine, feminine, neuter, why the genitive ending is...

A or E, there's nothing to help you. So it's just a matter of getting used to it. I find myself at times in Russian afraid to speak because I'm afraid I'm going to get the endings wrong. And I think there you really just have to let go and trust that you have assimilated it well enough that you're going to hit 70, 80%.

It's the same with tones in Chinese. I mean, That's difficult. And I think that my tones in Chinese are probably 70%, 80%. They used to be 40%, 50%. And the more you use it, the better you get.

But, yeah, I mean, every language has its difficulty. Japanese, I mean, English has so many idiomatic expressions and phrasal verbs and stuff. I think every language has its difficulties. But is Russian or Slavic languages difficult?

Yes, I must say they're difficult. Ah, right. And of course it matters which language you're coming from as well. Oh, absolutely. For a Slavic language speaker, Russian is not difficult for a Polish person.

Right, right. Well, Steve, thank you so much. Again, it's link.com, L-I-N-G-Q dot com. Check out the app. You can import effortless English material into the system.

I'm using it for Spanish right now. It's fantastic. Come and visit us. Come and chat on the forum. I'd be very happy to exchange ideas with all of you.

Thank you so much, Steve. It's great talking to you. Thank you very much, AJ. I really enjoyed it. Thanks, Steve. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. All right, great. Well, that was very interesting.

Always great to talk to Steve. Check out link.com and especially the app. I'm really enjoying the app myself as I learn Spanish. So last few things. Effortless English news.

What's happening in Effortless English? Well, you know, first of all, we have our website, effortlessenglishclub.com. We currently have three courses or programs. There's the original course, which starts at a low intermediate level and focuses more on cultural topics.

We have our central course, which is Power English. That's on our homepage. That starts at about a middle intermediate level and up and focuses on topics connected to motivation and success.

And then finally, we have the VIP program that starts at kind of a high intermediate level, focusing on topics of success and leadership. So go to EffortlessEnglishClub.com and you can check that out. Now as part of Effortless English News, we are currently doing an upgrade on our website.

The website crashed last night. Because of that, I think it's back now. So hopefully it's all working well. We'll be gradually improving the design of the site over the next several months.

In terms of my book, my book is still almost finished. I need to add about 30 to 50 more pages. I'll be focusing on that in the next week or two. And we'll be doing an audio book as well.

It'll be my voice. I'll read the book myself in English. And as part of that audio book, I'm thinking of doing, like adding some extra materials, making an audio book course. It'll be really cheap, you know, like a dollar or two dollars, just as kind of an introduction to the Effortless English system, and just an inexpensive way for people to get a lot of input.

So that will be coming sometime later in the year. It takes a while. Even after the book is finished, it takes a while to, you know, to format it, to design it, and then to publish it, so...

Patience, patience. All right, I think that's it. Oh, of course, we've got to end with our code and our mission. The code of Effortless English, it's just the way we act in our community.

It's how we treat each other so that we maintain, we keep a very positive community. So the code has three parts. Part number one, we do the best we can. We don't worry about mistakes.

We do our best, but we'll make mistakes. We're not perfect. Number two, we do the right thing. I think most of us know what that means. And number three, we show each other we care.

So we actively help each other in our community. That's the code. Our mission is to explore new opportunities for growth, to bring confidence, vitality, and happiness to people all over the world, and to boldly go where we have never gone before.

If you're a Star Trek fan, you'll recognize the rhythm of that mission. That's our mission. Thank you so much. As always, go to EffortlessEnglishClub.com and join my free email course.

That's the foundation. It's the beginning of the system. It's free. EffortlessEnglishClub.com, the free email course. Thanks so much to my guest Steve Kaufman.

Thank you to everybody on Twitter, all the Effortless English members and fans, the whole community, the whole crew out there. Thank you so much. We'll see you next time. Until then, have a great day.

Bye for now.