BE 569: Conflict at Work? How the Tuckman Model Can Help

This is the Business English Podcast, Episode 569, Conflict at Work, How the Tuchman Model Can Help. Welcome to the Business English Podcast from All Ears English. Get the English skills you need to achieve your dreams in global business. For a presentation, a meeting, or your office party, this is Real Business English with your favorite American hosts, Lindsay and Aubrey, coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, USA.

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Go to allearsenglish.com slash fluency score. That's allearsenglish.com slash F-L-U-E-N-C-Y-S-C-O-R-E. Hey, Aubrey, how are you doing today? I'm great, Lindsay.

How are you? I'm feeling pretty good, ready to talk business here on the show. Yes, this is going to be really fun. What do you think makes a team work well together?

Well, I think that to be a good team, you got to go through it when you need to go through it. You know what I mean? Like you need to go through the processes of building yourself up as a team. Sometimes that means conflict at the beginning.

Like I think the teams that don't work out well are teams that kind of avoid conflict or Or don't go through the process of building as a team. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely.

Right. A team who's untested, untried and has, you know, had things go really easily can't really know how they will handle conflict and something that's much more difficult. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

And you know, we can think of teams. This makes me think of a, I had a, like a meditation group. I was a part of like a closed meditation group for about a year and a half. And we fully went through the stages that we're going to talk about in today's episode fully.

A lot of like, not drama, but just debating and people getting upset with each other. And then, well, and I'll tie it in later, but this can happen outside of the workplace too. Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay. Super interesting. Well, today we're responding to a listener's comment about teamwork. Do you want to read that for us, Lindsay? Yeah. Hi, dear ladies.

I've been listening to your podcast in September of last year, and I truly enjoy the energy you bring to each episode. I'd like to suggest a topic you might consider covering in a future episode, the Tuckman model and the different situations that can arise in team management.

The Tuckman model explains the necessary and inevitable progression teams go through to become productive. It outlines four stages, forming, storming, norming, and performing. Thank you for the great content and keep up the excellent work. This is from Edgar.

All right. Amazing. Yes, this is such a great topic, especially for this podcast, because teamwork is all about connection and it's so vital to be successful at work. You can accomplish far more on a team than you can alone, of course.

But to be effective, like you were saying, Lindsay, the team needs to be cohesive and they need to be able to handle conflict well. Yes, for sure. They need to learn to listen to each other, support each other. And so conflict is not always a bad thing.

We think it is, I think, but it's not. It builds strength in teams sometimes, as long as you move out of the conflict eventually. That's what we're going to talk about today. But Aubrey, what should our listeners do first?

Aubrey Yeah, be sure to follow if you guys haven't right here, the Business English Podcast, open your search bar, you'll see the yellow square and be sure to hit follow so that you don't miss any of our episodes.

Okay. So our listener Edgar mentioned the four stages. This could be something you might study in business school potentially, or if you read a business book, something like that, right? But they've actually added a fifth stage.

So we're going to talk about all five today. And that first one, as Edgar mentioned, is forming, right? The team is new. People are usually polite, cautious, just getting to know each other.

And the members are really just getting their bearings, like who might become a leader here? What do people think? What are their norms, their expectations?

Again, opinions, defining roles within the group. This reminds me, Lindsay, have you seen the film Triangle of Sadness? It's on Netflix right now for the first time. I saw it in the theater a couple of years ago, and then it was streaming somewhere for a while.

So a lot of people, it just came on Netflix. A lot of people haven't seen it. It's so good. You've got to watch it. But it's kind of bonkers. There's a few things that are a little bit bonkers.

But at one point, this sort of happens where... you see this very clearly where it's like a group of people that are very much trying to figure out the power dynamics, like who's going to be a leader and why. And it's fascinating. And I recommend it for anyone out there.

It's a really interesting sort of accidental social experiment that very much pits like capitalism, socialism, and communism against each other. But in the context of like a group making it work in real time and It's also just very entertaining. So yeah, you guys will have to check it out.

And then I'm curious as we go through these steps. I think it was like it all kind of came to fruition in that film as they first were sort of figuring out their group dynamics. Yeah. I think that's the interesting part of that is like, no matter what economic system you're in, this is human.

Humans always look to find power dynamics. Like there kind of always is a hierarchy in a way, I think. Yes. Right. It doesn't matter what your economy is or does.

There's always going to be this, this moment where a hierarchy will form. That's I'm trying not to share spoilers, but I will just say there's it's, you know, the kind of upper deck lowered up on a ship where you have the crew and the staff, and then you have, you know, the, the passengers who, so there's this very power dynamic. And then there's a shipwreck and they end up on an Island and they have to reset that power dynamic. And one of the women who was like a cleaning lady on the ship,

yeah has the best survival skills she's catching fish and cooking them and making the fire so she's like i'm the captain now i'm the one that has the skills to help us survive and it's so fascinating everything that happens that is really interesting really It's a lot like the movie I just saw over the weekend, Send Help. It was a plane crash where a boss of a tech company and then a woman who just wasn't getting promoted, but she added a ton of value. She was the one with the survival skills.

There was a plane crash near Thailand. Okay, same kind of thing. Things got flipped. Yeah, really interesting. But like you said, that movie was kind of strange.

This one too. There were definitely things that were happening that were just bonkers. I almost have a hard time recommending it because I could imagine a lot of you watching and being like...

what is happening? You're like, is this what Aubrey watches? But it's so by the end, you're going to be like, that was really interesting. All right. I'm going to have to, what is it called again?

I'm going to have to watch it tonight. Triangle of sadness, which what that is, is when you have like your 11s, your stress lines in your forehead, that's called the triangle of sadness when it's really pronounced because you're often like glaring or like, right, right, right, right. Got it. Okay, interesting.

Okay, good tip for all of our listeners here. Love it. So yeah, so forming is like, you can't get around this, right? This happens every time with any group that is going to be together for a substantial amount of time, right?

Exactly. And second, storming, when tensions and disagreements begin to arise. So yeah, working styles are going to clash. Communication issues crop up.

This is inevitable. Yep. And I know in my meditation group, there were certain discussion topics that were really hot button issues for people. But I don't think it was necessarily about the topics or the way they were addressed.

It was about people felt something was off with another person in the group. And so that was just the method through which it came out, through how the storming came out. It wasn't about the topic. And depending on people's...

Some people are conflict avoidant. Right. Some people are not. And so there can be power struggles. Right. the way you communicate will be very different and that can cause frustration for people.

Yeah. But then at some point, well, either the group breaks up, which you don't always have the option to do that in a work group at work, or you get past the storming and you get to norming. And this is where the team starts to align, right? Exactly, right.

They begin problem solving together. Roles and processes are agreed upon and it becomes collaborative. Yeah. Exactly. You know what to expect. There are certain guardrails in the group.

Certain things happen, certain things don't, maybe. You've agreed to a set of social norms in the group. Exactly. Exactly. And then we move on to number four, which is performing, where you experience increased productivity as a team.

Yeah, exactly. The team becomes flexible. They adapt to each other's needs. This is like a next level way of being, right? You start to focus on results, not so much on the dynamics of the team, but focus outward, right?

Yeah. And as we said, not every team will reach this point. Some teams will have to be changed or dissolved before we get there because it doesn't always work out. But when it does, when you can have this powerful team dynamic, you get to this performing stage and can be very effective.

Yeah. And then there is a fifth stage. Did our listener add this stage or did we add this stage? Yeah. With our research and planning this, we see there is this fifth stage of adjourning.

Okay. Good. And this is where the project or the team ends. Most teams' projects will end at some point, right? And you'll move on to another team, another project.

This is reflection closure, which is really important for getting better at being on a team. There has to be an end point, you know? Yeah. And it's really smart to look back and assess what went well.

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Okay, Aubrey. So how can this model help teams be more effective? And we'll talk about it in English here and maybe some English pieces will come out a little bit. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. We have three main things here. First of all, it normalizes conflict. So traditionally, conflict often has had sort of a negative connotation. A lot of people are conflict avoidant, but we need to recognize conflict isn't always a bad thing.

Often it's very productive. Yeah, that's why I said at the top of the show, teams that go through it when they need to go through it, right? To go through it is a trendy phrase right now. I'm just going through it right now, right?

You don't avoid these things. You go into the middle of it, right? Exactly. Recognizing that there will be growth on the other side. You face it, figure out how to figure it out, and then come out the other end.

Figure out how to figure it out. Love it. And then it also helps the teams understand that working well together is going to be a process, right? So it's not going to just happen automatically.

I think we would take it for granted more if that were the case. Exactly, right. This can take time. All of these steps can take some time and some work negotiating and figuring things out.

But then if you have a growth mindset and give it that patience, that's when you can figure out the best team dynamic. And then we can articulate to people outside of the team, maybe in our department, who are expecting results, where you're at with the group, like we're still figuring things out, or it's all part of the process, you can articulate what is the status of the, maybe you're a little less productive in the beginning, because you have to go through these stages. Yeah, those are great phrases for showing that patience, right? We're still figuring it out.

But with that hope, that positive attitude that you're going to become that team that's incredibly productive and effective. And then what else, Aubrey? And then third, it can help guide leadership decisions. So for team leaders, the forming stage requires more guidance and direction.

And then the storming stage is more mediation and conflict resolution. Right. Yeah, it's probably not advisable to just let this go. I mean, some groups will be able to figure it out on their own, but some kind of facilitation is helpful, right?

The performing stage means the facilitator might step back or the leader delegate more and encourage that autonomy because the group has gone through it. They have built those skills together. Yeah. And this is really interesting.

If leadership doesn't provide that scaffolding as you go, more teams would fail than do. Like with that support and the patience to let them figure it out, to give them the time to work it out, then you can have an effective team that might have been broken up or dissolved if we didn't give that support. It's probably better if this is someone outside of the team that is doing the facilitation, right? A neutral party.

Someone you report to, someone the team reports to. It's not on the team itself, right? Because then there are power dynamics there if it's the leader of the team, right? Yeah.

So how would we talk about this? Let's do a role play, Aubrey, that will show our listeners how we might talk about these stages in English. Yeah, let's do it. So you and I work for the same company.

We just joined a new team, which is in the storming stage. And we're chatting after a tense team meeting. All right. That meeting felt pretty uncomfortable.

It did, but I'm trying not to take it personally. I think it's all part of working on a new team. You mean the disagreements? Exactly. Some people's communication styles are definitely clashing, but I think we'll figure it out.

It's just a process and it might take a little time. Okay. That's a good way to look at it. I was getting worried we were going to fail. No, I think once everyone's roles are clear, things will move much more smoothly.

The exact same thing happened on my last team, and we ended up working really well together. That makes a lot of sense and honestly relieves some of my concerns. Yeah. I mean, I think as you get further up in business and become more experienced, you understand that that's the case, right?

You've been on different teams. This is how it works. Yeah. And this is always nice when you have a more experienced team member who can share that wisdom with someone who hasn't been through that before and share like, I've been there before and it could still definitely work out.

Yes, 100%. We did another episode, Aubrey, on teamwork. That was Business English 530, How Not to Step on Toes at Work. So guys, go and check that out.

Aubrey, have you been on any teams in your career or maybe just personal life, right? Maybe sports teams that you went through these stages and it made you a stronger team, do you feel like? Absolutely. Yeah, I've definitely have experienced this with sports, with jobs, with being on a team, with my kids, my family being on a team.

I feel like I've seen this definitely in my personal life. I can see all the stages that I've been through. And I've also been on teams that... And disbanded because we got stuck at one of those phases and we couldn't get to where we're effective.

And we sort of just realized, let's cut ties, move on, try something else. Sometimes that's the right decision too, right? You reach an impasse. It's like, this isn't working out for whatever reason.

So what's the final message for our listeners today? Yeah, I think it's so important to be aware of these steps so that you recognize that you're going through a process and it's going to take patience. Some of these steps will take longer than others, right? But they're all vital in order to get to where you're that effective team.

Yeah. So good. And great question from our listener, Edgar, I think that was. Thank you so much, guys. Send your questions in to support at allearsenglish.com.

If it's a very specific question, we will do our best to answer it on the show. Right, Aubrey? Yes. Awesome. Thank you everyone for your questions. Often questions that are sent in to All Ears English, we answer here on Business English.

So make sure you're following and vice versa. So make sure you're following both podcasts. 100%. All right. See you next time. Have a good one. I'll send you too.

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